hard.wmv
Just kidding. They require the most skill of any class!
My gear sucks. I suck. This is my second day on PvPing with a class that I haven't even PLAYED for more than than hour in over 3 months. Close your eyes and just imagine what a great rogue with great gear could do. And now contemplate why rogues are the whiniest and most self-absorbed class in WoW.
Now, to compare and contrast let's see how Iwl does against this slightly better geared warlock.
spotter1.wmv
OUCH... my trinket and WoTF was down and Spotter had berserker, but it wouldn't have mattered. What kicked my ass here was the total control I was under due to well-coordinated use of spell lock, howl, deathcoil, and snare to keep me from closing to fear.
Rematch, except this time its me with berserker buff. RAWR!
spotter2.wmv
Damn. :(
I choked at the end, I should have dropped shadowform and renewed and PoMd. It would have been enough to win. Good players force mistakes. I've always said this and it really pisses me off to see people applaud someone in topgear flawlessly killing people they outgear. Well, no shit. I mean, bad players put no pressure on your whatsoever. Who wouldn't look l33t beating the crap out of people they outgear?
It's the people who you know that can kick your ass that get you second-guessing yourself because you know one mistake or slipup means a loss. That's pressure. Ganking people who are no threat to you, no matter how elegantly you do it, is pointless to me.
Oh yes, back to the original point: Rogue > Shadowpriest
22 comments:
So rogue > affliction lock, not any news really.
Its another story with SL-SL lock, thats whats OP, not full affliction.
-.- Yes what a great way to compare a whole class >.>
SL IS 4 1VEE1.
Ahem.
Seriously though, in a solo match-up versus a rogue, the only bag-o-tricks an affliction warlock takes against you is the instant howl. If you can trinket the howl, intelligently CloS and kill them in under 45 seconds, they're not hard. God forbid you fight one with no PvP trinket though, that's a completely different story.
Yes, SL is definitely harder but don't you think it is kind of *wrong* for a toon with over 12K HPs and 420 resilience to be killed 100-0 in a simple stunlock?
Keep in mind, I didn't use my trinket either! LOL.
Nothing new here, Rogues have always had the upper hand versus affliction locks, and SL locks have always had the upper hand versus Shadow Priests.
Sorry for the double post, but why not show the opposite?
Show us how easy it is to beat a gladiator geared warrior on your priest, then switch to your rogue and try to beat one :p
Just a bad comparison.
Can I link your statement right back to your IWL movies where you effortlessly kill warriors over and over?
I don't beat warriors 100-0 like that with the shadowpriest. I mean, they get their shots in. I guess you are saying that if you spec a certain way you just have to get used to getting stunlocked to death by a rogue?
That practically forces warlocks to go SL unless they have healing support. And then rogues call SL locks "scrubs" LOL. You guys don't see the hypocrisy, seriously? :P
You are a scrub because you can survive my stunlock! Damn you!
Logic...reason...these things a rogue does not need.
What is OP is that the lock never has a chance. How can there be any skill when you never get to do anything?
It's just like when warlocks could fear kite you without you ever having a chance. Everyone screamed OP. This is the same situation but somehow its not OP? I really don't understand the logic in any of you arguing its not.
The counter, of course is trinket... but, even without the trinket I just don't think this kind of thing should be possible on someone with that type of gear.
BTW, my intention here isn't to get rogues nerfed or shadowpriests buffed.
I mean, I hear rogues complaining all the time about how they can't hurt anyone with high resilience. Well... I guess the problem isn't really resilience maybe, but instead the combination of resilience with certain talent builds?
It is resilience, and the fact that you pretty much have to be combat maces spec to have a chance to burn down (and control to that extent) anything.
Your gear isn't halfbad (better than my fresh 70 new rogue :p) and you already are combat maces to boot.
You would not be able to burn down that warlock if you were daggers.
Too bad that there are no Edit options here.. oh well.
To add to my previous post. What is out of control in the game atm are the mace stun procs, both rogue and warrior.
With a bit of luck and dual mace you can actually keep anyone stunned even outside KS.
On that note lemme ask something: D'you feel that the Drakefist hammer is worth the grind? Currently thinking of dropping one gathering prof and either getting BS for the mace or Engi for the goggles :p
Oozo, usually I agree with you on most things, but this I can not. How does burning AR, on a affliction lock with no trinket proves anything? How about a frost mage using a water elemental on a rogue who doesn't have a trinket. Do you even think it's possible for the rogue to touch that mage?
I am not saying that what you did to that warlock was fair on any level. No chance to fight back at all is definitely unfair. However, you can't just use that one clip to do a class comparison on a grand scheme.
Why must everyone misconstrue simple statements as some kind of manifesto...
"You would not be able to burn down that warlock if you were daggers."
True dat. AR and blade flurry. I even screwed up by not doing my 1 pt improved SnD (rusty).
Drakefist was easy to get, but I started TBC at 300 BS/Mining. Starting from zero... eh, I wouldn't want to do that unless I had a TON of spare gold to work with. Yes, it's worth getting Drakefist because then you don't have to go after the expensive PvP weapons first and can build up your other gear.
At some point however, you are either going to have to improve the weapon or get a latter season weapon.
There SHOULD be a crafted dagger equivalent to Drakefist IMO though, because it severely limits the builds you can use. As I said before, I much rather would have levelled Chromed and gone daggers, but the ease of getting Drakefist made going with Oozo the smart (only) choice for me.
I did not want to PvP again with blue daggers and getting good daggers is much harder than getting the "welfare epic" Drakefist.
"Currently thinking of dropping one gathering prof and either getting BS for the mace or Engi for the goggles "
You could always make a "gatherer" character to feed you the mats. Then you can do both engineering and blacksmithing.
""No chance to fight back at all is definitely unfair. However, you can't just use that one clip to do a class comparison on a grand scheme.""
Well, the rogue > shadowpriest thing was tongue in cheek. As Ming mentioned, sometimes in an article you want to overstate things as that generates discussion. Ming is wise in some surprising ways.
I really don't like the ability for one class to completely control a fight. It's not cool.
Whether that be a warlock with a full fearlock, or a warrior with charge/intercept/mace stunlock.
And, I don't think such a simple thing as whether your trinket is up or down to completely determine that. Rogues complain about getting kited to death while being helpless when their CDs are down.
Can you see what I did to this warlock is basically equivalent to that major rogue complaint? He was totally helpless because his trinket was down. No one item should be so important as to win or lose a fight. No one cooldown should be so important as to win or lose a fight.
Can this be fixed? Nope. I don't think it can. :(
@ Ooozo's response to me.
My point is that certain classes and spec's have the definate undeniable upper-hand on other classes. Blizzard doesn't seem to have a problem with the fact that their game is turning into paper-scissors-rock for both solo and group PvP, but I do. I'd rather see balance.
@ "Daggers have no chance". Actually, mutilate can do as much or more damage in a CS -> KS, especially if they're willing to burn CB/Rentaki.
@ "Should I level BS".
Yes, if you're not going to raid. If you're going to raid you can get almost comprable weapons to BS T2 just from finishing Kara. I don't regret levelling BS for my rogue, because I'm unlikely to ever get him into a raid (Warrior main). It's worth pointing out, however, that even with Felsteel gloves plans, it cost me ~900G (Of which I got 1/3-1/2 back from the AH) to level 363 - 375 to get dragonmaw. The only other difficult part in levelling it was the 400-600ish thorium for the 275ish -> 320.
@"Blacksmithed dagger"
Yes please.
@ "Warlock had no chance"
Trinket+DC macro, CoE, instant dot's, run in circles till any non-imp sprint rogue is dead.
@ "Reduce the reliance on PvP trinkets"
Yes please. I have a two minute trinket for both of my characters, and I've still lost fights because it was down at an inconvenient time, or because someone survived long enough that their CC cooled down.
Warlocks DO have another counter to a stunlock, the succubus. A well timed seduce will leave a hole in the stunlock. The rogue can trinket it and blind the succy, but then is open to instant HoT.
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