Almost everything I talk about is from a 1v1 PvP perspective. Things are obviously different when you talk about a class that has support. Warriors, for example, become exponentially more difficult the more support they have. It was that way before the BG system, it was that way before arenas, and it is that way now, and it will continue to be that way in the future. However, people still seem to scream about warriors on a 1v1 basis.
Notice the language: "I was stunlocked by a warrior" "A warrior 4 shot me"
I see a lot of "I" and "me" and very little "my team" when reading warrior complaints. Team PvP is not 1v1 PvP people. I focus on 1v1 PvP, and although you would be correct to say that "1v1 PvP does not matter in WoW anymore"... I don't give a shit. :)
I will continue to focus on 1v1 PvP in WoW, until a new game comes out and then I will focus on 1v1 PvP in whatever that game is.
End of warning.
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I still visit the Rogue forums for a laugh now and then. It never ceases to amaze me what they will complain about, why they complain, and how they complain.
"I've been stunlocked by a warrior"
"Warriors stunlock better than rogues"
So, in these two threads we have rogues complaining about how warriors stunlock better than rogues (LMAO, please) and spout off some ridiculous burst damage numbers. But... but... he had a STORMHERALD!
"I got 4 shot by a warrior"
In this thread a rogue with around 7K HP and 12 resilience complains of getting four-shotted by a gladiator-rated warrior using a STORMHERALD! That's kind of funny just by itself, but later on someone chimes in:
"It's just wayyy too easy for any warrior to kill a good rogue." - some clueless rogue
Well, I got news for you. It's just wayyy too easy for any rogue to kill a good shadowpriest. Last night I had a rogue cheapshot me. I quickly trinketted, dotted, and started to kite. He vanished. Yes, he vanished with my DoTs on him. But, hey no problem. Because rogues have so many 1v1 escape abilities now that no matter how much they suck or screw up a shadowpriest can't kill them unless the rogue decides to hang around. Realizing that he is screwed, the rogue sprints away, cloaks, and restealths. I could have used my pet to "stealth bug" him, but unfortunately the shadowpriest "survivability" skill is on a 5 minute cooldown and isn't always up when you need it.
Here is another quote from the same person as above.
"Why do we have to worry about energy..." - same clueless rogue
Ever play a caster class that is out of mana, pal? Because if you have you would never... and I mean... NEVER bitch about energy mechanics.
Sprint/CoS/restealth and CoS/vanish are on the same scale of cheesiness as paladin bubble/hearth. Rogues need to play another class and realize how nice it is to have a "get out of jail free" card. I should be rewarded when I catch a rogue before he gets the opener. It takes good reactions to knock a rogue out of stealth that sneaks up on you when you aren't expecting it. BUT, a shadowpriest does not get rewarded for this. What a shadowpriest usually gets is a rogue doing vanish/CoS. Then, they either just leave, or they hang around long enough for their precious CoS cooldown to refresh and try again. Hey, keep on trying! You are bound to get that opener right eventually!
I'm sorry to say this, but it is pathetic. It's absolutely pathetic. The skill rewards people who play poorly (they use it defensively). And makes good rogues even more difficult than they already were (they use it offensively). Before I go on, I want to make it clear that what I'm talking about has nothing to do with high resilience matchups. That is a whole 'nother can of worms that Blizzard has managed to screw up. The resilience system is broken. I'll just leave it at that.
CoS by itself is fine, the problem is the timer. The skill is always up. And, I've actually had extended fights where the rogue gets to use CoS twice in the same fight. Please? Or you have the situation like I describe above. The rogue totally screws up his opener, but uses CoS to get away and then just hangs around in stealth for a whole-whopping minute and tries again. Absolutely pathetic.
You think you have problems with warriors, rogues. Just try... try... to play a shadowpriest against a good rogue. Heh.
Now, here is the flip side to that coin. Last night after my friends logged I decided to go looking for some 1v1s with my shadowpriest. In a span of a couple of hours I managed to kill the following warriors 1v1. The lowest I got was half-health.
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shattered+Hand&n=Goorgaar
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Medivh&n=Elrich
Oh noes! A STORMHERALD!
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bloodhoof&n=Ozymandeus
Oh noes! Deep Thunder and 300+ resilience!
Does that mean I totally rule? NO. What it means is that:
"It's just wayyy too easy for any shadowpriest to kill a good warrior" - some newb shadowpriest
I suppose when you sit down and read this article (if you manage to make it all the way, that is) you could just summarize all of the above with a single sentence.
If you quit your bitching about warriors, then I'll quit my bitching about rogues.
11 comments:
Good article as always.
Well, I'm way way past the omgnerfwarriors, always was. Every time I get killed by a warrior I'll go look for a squishy, that's life.
'Tis the circle of life /insert lame lion king ref
What I agree on is the bullshit that is resilience. This one goes straight to the wall of shame. I understand the need to end the 3shot fights, but to mess around with a stat as precious as Crit is just plain wrong.
Resilience should just decrease damage taken PERIOD
As a bonus it'd also take care of the problem about DoTs bypassing Res. That way they wouldn't have to nerf (again) their damage.
I know they haven't said they'd nerf Dot damage, but we all know they only know how to do things that way.
Unfortunately, i might add.
Sorry for the wall o'text, and any spelling mistake made, english is not my main language.
Ah, but you forget something, Oozo. Shadowpriests aren't easy for Rogues either. They're fairly easy for my Shaman, but not my Rogue. See, here's the catch, i've killed many shadowpriests with my both toons that never, ever, tried to pop out in normal form and heal.
And then, there's the itemization. What do you think has it better, a Rogue with ced's carver or a shadowpriest with bringer of death ? I actually dueled a shadowpriest the other day, after the usual opener/trinket/fear/wotf he started unloading his dots on me. In the heat of the moment, i thought "i'm not gonna use CloS now, i'll do it in 4-5 seconds". I don't know how or why and when, but in 5 seconds half of my hp were gone, that's around 4k dmg. I lost the fight simply because i assumed 2-3 DoT ticks won't do enough dmg, seems i was wrong. Now, i didn't really notice what the priest did to me, mind flay, sw:p, devouring plague, probably these. They do a lot of dmg. Shadowpriests are fine. I really believe that they're the top class in 1v1. Warlocks, well, they do well in mass pvp and win attrition wars, but not like a shadowpriest with heals, pet and vampiric touch could.
I like 1v1. "pvp is not based on 1v1" it's just bullshit. Some people at blizz are just too lazy to find the balance so they say this over and over again. See, trouble is, before tbc, any class could beat any class in 1v1 with enough skill. Sure, some classes would beat other classes easier, some specs would be more efficient, and so on and so forth. But you could do it. You could kill a warrior. Now, you can't, not really. Sure, there are moments when you kill one, because he's way waaay undergeared, or afk or smth, but the reality is a mediocre warrior will kill a good rogue with 4-5 keybindings. Say what you want, but that's definetly not balance. And if you think Rogues are okay vs. clothies, well, try an elemental mage with blazing speed and ice barrier.
Yeah, everything is balanced up to a point. But simply tapping 2-3 keys and winning against good geared and skilled opponents, that's not nice. A good shadowpriest will still win against your average joe rogue, but an average joe warrior will still beat a good rogue. That's the imbalance. That's why i think you're comparing apples with oranges here, Oozo. Warriors and Shadowpriests belong to two different worlds in terms of skill required to play these classes, the type of dmg they inflict, endurance, and so on and so forth.
Shame the second poster deleted his comments. Was going to reply. :)
Our experiences shape our opinions. When I make judgement calls, I'm typically making it from the position of being undergeared and fighting someone who is geared. I typically don't have problems with rogues with equivalent gear as mine. That is very true. It is the rogues with good gear who know what they are doing that are VERY difficult to beat.
From my personal experience, beating a good rogue with Iwl is harder than beating a good warrior with Oozo (I'm sure things have changed though). Just my own personal feelings.
As mentioned I don't think CoS should be done away with. What irritates me the most about it is its short timer. And some rogues abuse that. I had it happen to me again tonight. I flat out beat a rogue to the punch on his opener from stealth. But, hey no problem for him... Cos/Vanish *poof*
RESET - TAKE 2!
I then ran around in a circle for a minute until he finally attacked me again. He waited until his CoS cooldown came back. I'm sorry, man. But that is just lame. It's incredibly incrediby lame lame lame.
CoS needs to be on a 2 minute cooldown, minimum.
I'll post the fraps of the above tomorrow some time so you can see what I mean.
Hey Oozo, I haven't comment in a bit because I've been busy with RL and hanging out with the gf. I have been keeping up on the articles though, and a couple of things.
First off, the rogue-warrior comparison is a little off. While I do agree that rogue vs any caster is an imbalance match up to start off with (except frost mages, they can DIAF), it is not the impossible match up that is rogue vs warrior. Let say a rogue has gear equal to what you have on your shadow priest. There is no way he has a chance in hell vs a gladiator Warlock, because there is no way for him to win the DPS race. The fact that your shadow priest can kill warriors with Stormherald speaks volume for that match up and how the two classes differ in gear dependency.
I think where your frustration lies is the fact that bad players can rely on CoS to play cheaply. I honestly think that a CoS to vanish because of broken stealth in 1v1 is a total waste. The CoS should really be used after all dots from the shadow priest are applied (devouring plague anyone?) or to be used in between CS and KS while waiting for energy regen to resist the fear.
Second comment is about your video. Some parts I really enjoyed, such as the fights at the LM, and stables. Other parts, and this is no fault of your own, it’s just that shadow priest PvP is rather boring. I felt like it was slow, and dragged. The red text at the bottom was hard to notice sometime, because I just don’t really look there. As for music, I liked the fact that it wasn’t screaming metal. However, that’s just personal taste because everyone has his or her own music style/choice.
Last part, what do you think of the new addition to Ming’s blog? I see how bringing on a girl gamer will attract people, but I think most of Ming’s reader (aka immature little brats) will never take her seriously. Although I do enjoy her wit, it seems she has an uphill battle to fight. Any thoughts?
Ok last thing for real! I am so looking forward to Minti’s 1v1 instructional videos. Finally a narrative that is worth watching and some insight into the split second decision making that goes through a top-notch rogue’s mind mid battle.
P.S. Sorry got the huge wall of text! Hey I read though that whole post about OMG STORMHEARLD, I deserve some credit ^_^
Sorry about deleting...just a few things that were wrong with my comment :) was quite tired but you kinda reply'd anyway so let me respond :)
As a more of a casul player on my rogue I experience very very annoying fights, mostly from a BG standpoint I think...I find myself having to blow CLOS just to escape the DOT zerg from the civil war line of casters heh, but then again i guess BG's arent 'real" pvp anymore..but you read my other comment so let me move onto another something else...I currently am leveling a shaman, stoped at 69 for pvp..and I can say that ive never hated rogues more in my life...I just cant win no matter what pretend CLOS is on a 20second timer vs you thats pretty much what i feel like..with evasion and CLOS completly negating all forms of damage i can deal...and having 1 school of magic to heal from kinda annoying..though i guess thats what i get for playing a ENH shaman in a pvp environment..also I would like to throw a idea out there about ure DOT + resilience idea, I think that dots overall time should be reduced by the "crit damage taken off" amount..do you think that would be too much?
At the risk of being flamed here, I'm gonna go out on a limb and state that I think WoW PvP is balanced. Every class can be good. When people complain its because their own shortcomings caused them to lose, NOT class imbalance.
Chess wouldn't be balanced if both sides didn't have exactly the same pieces
^^^
Lorr,
I think it's good that Ming gets some different "voices" for his blog. I would hope that people accept her based on whether her posts are good reads or not, but yeah. :/
Idgit,
As much as I complain, Blizzard has made the best fantasy PvP game to date. Overall, it is really quite balanced. It's impossible to have a perfectly balanced game. Especially when gear plays such a huge factor.
Pretty much all complaints are gear-based in nature. The classes themselves are remarkable well-balanced when you consider the big picture.
But, I'm still going to bitch about CoS being on a 1 minute timer. :)
But why ? Is it that gamebreaking for your priest ? very few DoTs have CD, and you could simply use rank1 dots to force a CoS. Like a paladin would use rank1 seals to force my shaman to purge.
I don't mind the old 2 min CD, but I want CoS back in Prep, and then it's all good. But as it stands now, 1 min CoS is okay. You just need to focus in making the rogue blowing it early. The same way rogues force mages to blow ice block, or a paladin his bubble. It's proactive pvp - i do this to make the enemy do that. It's why we cheapshot mages and gouge, knowing he'll blink. As a Rogue, i know that suddenly seeing 3-4 debuffs is pretty scary (vampiric, sw:p, shadow weaving, mind flay), and i'd CoS to prevent a blackout proc. Come on, you're still a rogue, you know how that stuff works.
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